Conversation with Pony.ai CFO Wang Haojun: The biggest competitor in the autonomous driving industry is ourselves.

Since 2026, the global autonomous driving industry has reached a crucial turning point, moving step by step from technology R&D and validation to large-scale commercial deployment. At the same time, behind the rapid development of the industry, multiple challenges—including technology, costs, policies, and ecosystem—have yet to be resolved, testing the ability of the entire industrial chain to achieve coordinated breakthroughs.

As a representative company in autonomous driving, Pony AI has also released its 2025 results recently. On March 26, Pony AI published its 2025 Q4 and full-year financial report. The report shows that in 2025, Pony AI’s total revenue reached RMB 629 million, a 20% year-over-year increase. Among them, the Robotaxi (autonomous ride-hailing taxi) business, which has drawn the most attention from the public, generated revenue of RMB 116 million over the past year, up 128.6%. In Q4, Robotaxi revenue was RMB 46.6 million, accounting for 40% of full-year revenue, up 160% year over year. Passenger fare revenue grew by more than 500% year over year.

Pony AI has achieved an operational milestone in Guangzhou and Shenzhen, turning unit economics (UE) across the city range profitable. This means that in first-tier cities like Guangzhou and Shenzhen, Robotaxi revenue can already cover all operating costs, including vehicle depreciation, insurance, operations and maintenance, remote assistance, and more, while generating positive cash flow.

At a recent media briefing by Pony AI, Pony AI co-founder and CFO Wang Haojun, along with several media outlets including Caijing.com.cn Technology, held a dialogue. He said, “For a growth-stage company, what’s most important is always Top line (revenue).”

In the recently disclosed financial report, Pony AI has continued to emphasize that UE in its dual-city operations in Guangzhou and Shenzhen has turned profitable. Wang Haojun also said plainly that last year’s most important milestone for Pony AI was turning profitable UE. “Pony AI does not pursue a low-price strategy. That’s not to say Pony AI does promotions and new-customer acquisition to get more orders. The end result of a low-price strategy is that there are no stable, daily recurring user orders, which also cannot ensure UE remains relatively stable with sustained growth. Similarly, it also can’t guarantee better performance in revenue.”

In terms of fleet size, as of March 25, 2026, Pony AI’s fleet size has expanded from 270 vehicles at the end of 2024 to 1,446 vehicles. Pony AI’s target this year is to exceed 3,000 vehicles by year-end, grow mobility service revenue to more than three times, and expand into 20+ cities. Can this goal be achieved? This also tests Pony AI’s capabilities across multiple areas, including technology, fleet scale, and the ecosystem.

The following is part of Pony AI’s briefing content (with edits):

Question: In this financial report, you achieved quarterly profitability for the first time, but mainly from your investment in Moore Threads. How do you view this single-quarter profitability, and do you have an expectation for a timetable for operating profitability?

**Wang Haojun: **This is just a reflection of a number, and it’s not that important. It’s not directly related to any item of our Fundamental (most core business). The investment in Moore Threads that year, in our view, was most important in that it needed to support scaling up to a larger scale, requiring linkage across the entire ecosystem—including domestically produced chips—so all that needs to be considered for deployment. In fact, the Moore Threads investment at the time was more driven by strategic considerations. It just so happened that we achieved single-quarter profitability. We don’t think this is something worth making a big deal of, and it has no major association with our current core business.

From our company’s ultimate operating profitability, it is closely related to how much quantity Robotaxi is ultimately deployed at. Today, there is a consensus in the industry that Robotaxis will reach around 100k units by 2029 or 2030, and many companies should be able to achieve operating-profitability milestones.

Question: After removing the stock gains from Moore Threads, Pony AI is still losing money, and the year-over-year losses are still expanding. Why, when UE turns profitable per car, are the losses still growing?

**Wang Haojun: **UE per car itself is a revenue growth. The reason for the loss is that last year, there were many required investments to commercialize, such as the R&D costs for the seventh-generation vehicle. If there were no R&D for the seventh-generation vehicle, we would not be able to achieve UE profitability. In my view, this investment is necessary. We’re not saying that once UE turns profitable, the company will quickly move onto some so-called path to profitability. We’ve always emphasized that if UE turns profitable per car, what the company should focus on is revenue growth—and that growth should be far faster than the growth rate of expenditures. That’s a good model.

Question: Since last year, you achieved UE profitability in two cities, Guangzhou and Shenzhen. What are the difficulties in replicating this model in other cities to achieve UE profitability? After scaling, what changes will occur in costs and revenue?

**Wang Haojun: **In a new city, the vehicle costs are the same, and operating costs may be a bit lower—such as my personnel salary. But there’s also another issue: would the per-kilometer charges for single cars in these cities stay consistent with first-tier cities, or be lower? So, we still need a certain scale of network to ensure passenger fare revenue, so that ultimately each city can be like a first-tier city and potentially achieve UE profitability. Pony AI has achieved UE profitability in Guangzhou and Shenzhen. More importantly, the significance is that it sets a template. After setting a template, when expanding, you don’t need to be particularly insistent that each city must first reach UE profitability before you expand. Instead, you should pay more attention to how fast revenue grows. Under the premise of revenue growth, more UE profitability will naturally follow.

Question: Looking at the revenue mix, Robotruck has the highest share, and Robotaxi’s growth rate is also quite fast. The revenue from technology licensing seems comparatively steady. What are your priorities and investment focus for these three businesses this year?

**Wang Haojun: **At present, Robotaxi is the most important. Technically, Robotruck does have a strong linkage with Robotaxi. We share 80% of technology between Robotruck and Robotaxi. Our approach is that when Robotaxi reaches a new generation, some corresponding technologies will be applied to Robotruck’s new generation. We expect Robotruck’s revenue to continue to grow in the second half of the year. For the technology licensing and application portion, last year we were a domain controller supplier for low-speed logistics markets. Later, we also expanded into embodied intelligence, street-sweeping vehicles, and other scenarios. Overall this year, the orders are still very strong, at least ensuring revenue at the same level as last year.

Question: Regarding Pony’s “dual-engine” strategy, which you also discussed in the earnings call—since the overseas market has more attractive profit margins—could you explain in detail the overseas operating cost structure, and what is the biggest difference from domestic?

**Wang Haojun: **For a growth-stage company, the most important thing is always revenue. Earlier, I also mentioned that overseas market profitability potential is relatively more attractive. But in more detail, it’s not that every market is like that. In any overseas market, if its labor costs are high and passenger fares are high, then you can regard the marginal benefit as high.

Question: Following up on overseas, what I’m more curious about is that you just mentioned that in the Middle East, you will move quickly toward unmanned commercial operations. What kind of considerations will go into pricing locally? Will your pricing be aligned with local taxi pricing, or will it be lower or higher?

**Wang Haojun: **This is related to local regulatory thinking. Taking the Middle East as an example, actually the cost to enter is not high, which means I could pursue a low-price strategy. But the question is: why should I pursue a low-price strategy? Or does that market actually need a low-price strategy? Or will they also recognize the service value provided by autonomous driving and be willing to pay the same price as taxis. Different regions have different regulatory focus. If you suddenly adopt a low-price strategy, it might affect local taxi business. There’s a possibility that local regulators will also judge whether to give the company a guidance price, similar to taxis. If there are such guidance, we will certainly follow local regulatory opinions.

Question: Guangqi Toyota and Toyota China, together with Pony AI, are rolling out the seventh-generation vehicle this year. I just saw it’s 1,000 vehicles. If this year the fleet continues to grow to 3,000 units, will there be a specific impact on cost reduction brought by economies of scale?

**Wang Haojun: **Economies of scale will reduce operating costs. If the number of vehicles is 1,000 units, then from the viewpoint of the OEM, this volume is nothing at all. But we have also said that even if vehicle costs are not reduced through scale, but rather through continuous optimization of the cost of ADK (autonomous driving kits), then this year Pony AI can reduce ADK costs by 20% compared with last year. This is achieved through our own technology, not simply through economies of scale.

Question: With fleet expansion and city growth, will Pony AI’s Robotaxi business gross margin see relatively large fluctuations? And especially for the co-built fleet model, in the long run, will it dilute the company’s profit space?

**Wang Haojun: **Actually, it won’t, because the co-building model itself has two lines of revenue. One is vehicle sales revenue. After all, the capital expenditure for this vehicle is not on Pony AI’s side, so we would have revenue from selling vehicles. The second is a technology licensing fee. Licensing itself is a high-gross-margin business. If you look at it by itself, the gross margin of your own Robotaxi is higher than that of Robotruck’s technology licensing fee. Today, Robotaxi’s share of total revenue is volatile due to the impact of some project-based arrangements. This is also why we’re working to increase the portion of recurring revenue. If recurring revenue can be increased, then in the future these would be able to support business with higher gross margins.

Question: Now automakers, ride-hailing platforms, and technology companies are all entering the Robotaxi space. In your view, what kind of competitive landscape will it form in the future? Who will Pony’s biggest competitor be, and what would be Pony’s moat?

**Wang Haojun: **The biggest competitor in the autonomous driving industry is definitely ourselves. What we care most about is still pushing the whole industry forward. Even though we judge that a turning point has arrived, in everyone’s mind there will still be more questions: has the turning point really arrived? How exactly will revenue be achieved? For now, in this industry, what we need to do is drive the industry forward. So I’m more concerned about how we can move faster than others. The fact that many players enter autonomous driving, whether for the industry or for the ecosystem, is a good thing. After they come in, some costs can continue to decline. It’s just that, in the end, how many of these new players will actually succeed? Today, L4 safety requirements are far higher than L2+. That means that only those who can build such a technology stack to guarantee extremely high safety, while also covering overall operational efficiency, face far more complexity than L2+. My prediction is that companies that can make it to L4 will be far fewer than those that can make it to L2+. If we算 that way, in the end there will be only a few players—but their number will be far fewer than the L2+ companies.